Love Is The Foundation Of Great Leadership With Mike Strohl

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Love Is The Foundation Of Great Leadership With Mike Strohl

My guest is my dear friend, Mike Strohl. He is the President and CEO of a company called Entisys360. He’s been with that company since 1994. They are a technology company. They are involved in consulting around IT infrastructure, virtualization, security, cloud solutions, all that stuff that’s going on behind the scenes, and every company that keeps the world humming. They have incredible partnerships with some impressive companies like Citrix, Cisco, Microsoft and many others. He is at the helm of this great company and a real firm believer and practitioner of this idea that love is at the foundation of what great leadership is and what great business is. It is my great pleasure to welcome my friend, Mike Strohl, to the show. Mike, thanks for being here with me.

I’m glad to be here, Steve. Thank you for the opportunity.

You’re usually in Orange County, California.

I am in Big Bear Lake on March 17, 2020, for St. Patrick’s Day. When everything shut down, we decided to quarantine in the mountains. As things continued to be crazy, we haven’t worked too hard to leave our little mountain retreat.

You were at sea level and headed up into the mountains and have stayed there. What did you do? Go there for a weekend and decided to stick around?

Yes. It’s very quiet. We didn’t have to work hard to social distance. This area is considered one of the top, if not, the top vacation destination in the United States. I can’t figure out why because it’s a pretty small place, but it’s a lot of activity. People want to get out of LA County and San Bernardino County, etc.

I’d love to know your recollection of how you and I first connected because it’s been many years.

At some point in my life, somebody gave me your books. At the time, they were The Radical Leap and The Radical Edge. I cannot remember who gave them to me and nobody has come clean or realizes that I’m in search of that answer. I fell in love with them and I would read them a couple of times a year over and over again. I wasn’t sure if I should share them. I didn’t know if people would think I was a little crazy to think this whole concept of love and business was not just something you can prescribe to do, but it is natural if you love what you do, that’s the key in all of this.

You did a campaign where for every X books you bought, you’re donating books to teachers because you wanted to help the education system because you thought there was a natural correlation between teachers’ love of students and in teaching and what have you. That’s when I realized I was being selfish with my non-sharing of what I had coveted. I went out and bought a bunch of books and started sharing them with people. What I started to find was that many of them had the same experiences. It was somewhere in there that I wrote you an email, a letter or sent you fax back in those days.

You can't talk a game and not bring a good game. Click To Tweet

The purpose of this discussion is not simply to have a commercial on books which is wonderful for me, but this whole dynamic of love as a core business practice. What I’m hearing you say is that at the time that you read The Radical Leap and The Radical Edge which both of course addressed what I head-on, you were running a company. You felt that love in business rang your bells. It was important to you, but for some reason, you kept those books in a drawer and you didn’t share that with anybody. What was the hesitation? Why were you reluctant?

I know at that time, I felt it would have made me vulnerable to certain things about me that I didn’t want people to know. Even though I was living in practicing it without stating that I was living in practicing it overall. We all have at times in life and in business that concept of vulnerability, but you also at some point hopefully get past that and realize that you should have confidence and trust in those people that you say that you love and the business that you say that you love and share some of the mechanics or let them under the covers and let them see you for what and who you are because it does explain things. People that care about their businesses and care about those that they serve, whether it’s their employees, their customers or partners in the community, it’s not a single-threaded thing. The minute you open up like that, you find that people open up to you even more, which then allows you to practice this. I hate the word practice. It’s more than practice because we do it.

The hesitation in many ways, there were some fear about stepping into unknown territory on how would people respond if they knew that this is where you were intentionally coming from. In other words, it wasn’t like you suddenly changed your behavior. Your behavior was already there, but you didn’t want to pull back the curtain and say, “This is about love,” and fear of how people might respond to that is the soft squishy or whatever that make you vulnerable, but that means you’re weak. What you found is when you took that step, not only were you not criticized for it, but you found it reciprocated. It’s an important leadership principle there, because this idea of leading by example, that we all know is core to any great leader. This is conventional wisdom.

A lot of times people think, “All I have to do is behave in a particular way and people will follow my example.” That’s a great thing, but there’s another element to it and that’s the expression, the articulation of what’s important. In other words, to say out loud, “This is what’s important,” and at the same time to model the behavior that’s congruent with that. It’s not enough to talk a good game and not follow up. It’s also not enough to be acting in the great noble way without being overt as to what that is. Once you put those two together, that’s when the magic starts to happen and that’s what I’m hearing happened for you. The catalyst was that campaign that said, “You buy a book and I’ll give a book.” That brought you out of the drawer as it were.

I agree with exactly what you said, especially the part where you can’t talk and not bring a good game. When you raise the stakes to the level of love, if you’re not being authentic in your actions, people will see through you and you will get the exact opposite of what you were trying to get. The bottom line is you can read your books. You can write a bunch of this stuff down, you can do a speech, but if you are not authentic in living it, people will see right through that. My challenge to everybody is to find your authenticity within this, don’t just preach what’s here.

Our first face-to-face meeting was in San Diego, you sent me an email and we had a conversation on the phone and it was around Christmas time. After I got that email from you, I called you. I wasn’t surprised that I didn’t get you live, but I left you a voice mail. You responded to that voicemail, then you were coming through San Diego. We sat down and had a cup of coffee. That’s the personal on our history together. You shared with me in the beginning this story about how you were holding onto these ideas versus being overt with it. In your business, I’d like to find out what that looks like for you and what it looks like for Entisys360. Give us a little bit of context about your business so that the people can have a sense of where this is all unfolding for you. What do you guys do?

Even though we’ve known each other for a long time, sometimes it’s hard to describe, but we provide technology services, sales to mid-size to enterprise companies and government agencies primarily in California but across the United States. When we met, we are a company of about 35 people. We’re now 170 people. When we met, we had offices in Northern California and Irvine. In 2020, we have six offices throughout the state overall including in San Diego. You mentioned some of the manufacturers that we work with, but the key is around the people and the services that we provide. I believe that we’re like an, A Player type of company. Whether we’re doing security consulting or we’re doing work from home or we’re doing cloud consulting or collaboration, like Zoom call or Cisco WebEx or Microsoft teams, all these are relevant to this. I would be as bold to say something that the CEO of Microsoft said at a conference that they were doing virtually.

It was one of those things I wanted to put in the drawer and not come out, but the more I thought about it, the more I felt empowered to it. He basically said to us as what you would call value-added reseller assistance integrator are digital-first responders. The doctors, nurses and teachers are the real first responders that are out there to try and bump us into that category. It makes me a little bit nervous, but when you start thinking about it, those doctors, nurses and emergency services people can’t do what they need to do without the technology and that’s a calling to a higher power as a whole. I get excited and passionate. I don’t go around trying to act like we’re them, but it does increase the value of the mission that we have overall.

 

One of my favorite quotes that I’ve been sharing with people came from John Chambers, the Founder of Cisco. He referred to the importance of what’s the higher meaning and purpose in the work? It’s not enough just to pay people and to provide a good product or service, although those are important, but when we get a sense of what the impact of what we do is, then that generates energy for us as human beings, because we want to be a part of something. To refer to you guys and your industry as another category of first responders, it’s a wonderful thing particularly for your employees. For the team of Entisys360 to own that for themselves, whether or not you go out and crow about it. To know that for ourselves, that we’re enabling the people on the front line to do the work that they’re doing and that’s no bullshit. That is what you guys are doing, that then has to feel amazing.

You have to do a gut check before you say anything, and that’s maybe why I started heading towards the drawer with it. It’s like, “Do I believe this? Is this real?” They like to turn things, ambulance chasing with marketing. Do I feel this?” As I thought about it more, we would work with many hospitals, government agencies, companies that are trying to support their own employees and keep them working. All those things suddenly say, “We don’t own it all, but we have our place in this scenario that we’re all trying to deal with the best that we can.”

You’ve gone from 35 employees to 170, which is impressive growth by anybody’s standards. Tell us about your employees.

We’re a company filled with A-players and that’s what we require. The best way if I can describe that is you can be good at something, but be a terrible human being. I like to think of them as human beings first and A-players second. That runs through the core of our DNA. They’re all very innovative and creative. They all have the choice to work anywhere else. We’re in California and with all the big, huge tech companies that continue to reemerge and all the money going into that industry, I have to find a way to keep them excited about working for us and that comes in two forms. Excitement about the work they do and excitement about the people they do it with. Those are my real retention strategies as a whole.

I have many that have been with me 10, 15, 20-plus years, you did an interview with me and in my office in Irvine several years ago. Most of those employees that were in that are still with us and I take great pride in that. I care very much about the people, their families and had it not been that way for all these years, trying to retain people in this time. These are people that can go get jobs. They’re not on the unemployment line, no matter what, requires that to be there at the core of the business. Otherwise, we would have real problems through this.

They love the work they do and the people they’re doing that work with. What is it about working in your company? What is it about the dynamics of the team that people tend to love so much?

They’re all awesome people and it starts with that. They like each other a lot, have fun together, they’re all entrepreneurs or the majority of them are. In my personal opinion, we don’t manage down and that’s another major thing. My view is I don’t run a company. I’ve built a platform where smart, creative people can do smart, creative things and make a difference in the world. I strive to continue to do that. As the world changes, that platform has to change and even the platform for how we interact with and care for one another is a part of that.

Technically speaking, they’re not entrepreneurs because they work in the company versus going out and starting their own enterprise. What is it about them that inspires you to characterize them as entrepreneurs?

You can be good at something, but be a terrible human being. Click To Tweet

Maybe the right word is innovators. They have a lot of latitude to create, bring new ideas that don’t have to go to committee to step outside the box without fear of whatever happening. Another thing that I’ve done that is important in this industry is there are a lot of companies like mine that are being acquired by private equity or public companies. I was not interested in doing that because I wasn’t interested in doing that. I didn’t think anything of it, but what I found is that there are so few companies like mine left, that are at our size that have the capacity to deliver a full suite of solutions that aren’t controlled by a board that is being run by a bunch of financial people.

That’s a strategic advantage and not just for my employees. We can decide to do things together and not have to go through committee. Secondly, we can do creative things for our customers that our competitors can’t because they do have to go through committee. We’ve got something special and we know it. During this pandemic time, we have recruited some incredible talent into our business and it is for that very reason. We had the culture and the platform to begin with. We stuck together across all of this, which brought us closer together in many ways. There were challenges too. It’s not all butterflies and unicorns. We have enough of that. We’ve also been able to increase our talent posture with some fabulous people that want a home where they can go bring it to their customers.

The reason I want to explore that characterization of entrepreneur is it pushed a button of mine a little bit and I spent a lot of time with entrepreneurs. There’s this attitude that exists among many real entrepreneurs. They’re starting their own company. The attitude that I hear from many of those entrepreneurs or wantrepreneurs is the only way to be happy. If you’re not an entrepreneur, if you’re not out there starting your own company, if you’re not “your own boss” then you’re essentially less than, you’re a slave somehow. I never got it because if somebody is an entrepreneur and they want to build a company, that means if they’re going to have people working for them.

What does that say about the people that they’re going to have working for them? What does it say about their attitude for the people that are working for them versus starting their own companies? What I’m hearing you say is it’s not about starting your own company. It’s about having an environment where you can make decisions about having an environment where your talents are recognized. You’re given the support that you need to do your best work. If that’s the environment that you can create and that I can be in as an employee of a company, that’s a beautiful way to live.

The gift that you give in a lot of ways is you take off of their shoulders the other side of entrepreneurship, which is all the terror that comes along with trying to make payroll when you’re starting up and trying to shouldering the responsibility of everybody else relying on you in order to feed their families. What you described to me sounds like for most people, a best of both worlds scenario, “I can be my best, can work with great people and can put all of my energy into doing great things for our clients without worrying about how all the other things that come along with starting in business.”

I love people that want to go and do their own thing. I have a lot of people that have put business plans in front of me. I never judged them based on whether they have good or bad ideas. If not more than half the great companies that are out there were started by people who were told they would never be successful in what they were trying to accomplish. You have to be willing to fight through that, which means you may be on the successful or unsuccessful side of things. It’s more on the journey that I like to talk to them about. It’s harder than you think. It takes longer than you think. Your business plan day one will look anything like your business on day 365, assuming you make it through that.

I encourage it and people should do it, but it’s not for everybody. If you can have an environment where people can have all that without the baggage, then it’s a cool thing to do because you want them right on the edge of entrepreneurship, but wanting to work maybe in an environment. There are people that we brought in that to start up in our industry. There’s so much complexity around. It’s basic stuff but getting the vendor certifications and all the things that go along, if you bring them in and say, “That’s done, that’s 5 to 10 years’ worth of work. Go and do your thing.” That’s also an acceleration of opportunity for them as well as an opportunity for us.

I want to come back to something you said a little bit ago about how it starts with hiring great people, which is something that everybody wants to do. Everybody wants to hire great people. What is it about you guys that enables you to hire many great people?

 

Truly great people are very difficult to get. One, you don’t interview those people, you get to know them. I have one that I brought on who’s amazing. We got to know each other for a year and a half. We started the conversation, got together, talked about ideas, decided we liked one another. When certain other factors occurred, we were ready to go. We knew each other and we knew we could do good things together overall. You can’t get it in a single interview or 2, 3 or 5 different people interviewing the same person for 30 minutes. Those are numbers games in my opinion. I’ve used the same formula with acquisitions.

I’ve made four acquisitions in the time that I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing. Not one time did I go out and think to myself, “I need to expand the company. I need to expand this practice and have an M&A search firm go do what they do.” Every company I’ve acquired has been a business partner of ours for at least three years, if not longer. I already knew them. They knew us. We knew their cultures. We were already doing business together. It’s not even a merger. All we did was take what we already knew was there and go forward with it. You hear about companies with hiring. Suddenly, people into these positions are making these acquisitions and there’s culture and process clash and everything else. For me, it hasn’t had to be that way because we’ve all known each other going into this and we’ve all agreed to get into it together. It’s a different way to do it.

The formula essentially is to not have a formula. It’s to get to know people and see if you get a sense if the fit is going to be there. What I infer from that is it’s not simply about the level of technical skill and talent that they have. It’s also about, is the personality going to get to mesh? How would you describe the company’s personality?

Extremely passionate would be probably the biggest thing. Passionate, fun, extremely hardworking. Those words come to mind when I look at it, very caring overall. Those would be the big words for me when I’m thinking about the personality of the business.

I imagine this because it’s true. Any company that has a healthy strong culture, there are going to be people that don’t fit, even though you thought they would. Is that a rare occurrence with you guys? In the circumstances where it hasn’t worked out, is there any pattern that emerged as to why a person would not feel comfortable working at the company?

There are scenarios that you can’t get them all right. Overall, we’ve had scenarios where we put people in positions that because they’ve been with us maybe a long time or something along those lines. There’s a secondary aspect of things that I’m dealing with in these times. There are certain things you need to have from a leadership standpoint and certain things that need to change in order to keep the culture. The cool thing about this business is when somebody is not a cultural fit, because many are, it stands out and I don’t have to even manage that. I will hear about it, let’s put it that way. I don’t know that there’s a formula for that.

You do your best to get it right. There are many elements. Somebody with the greatest resume in the world can be the worst cultural fit for your business. Sometimes you hire people that have leadership and management titles. I don’t like the word manager because I don’t think my business needs those. They need leaders and people that contribute to the greater cause of delivering great experiences to our customers. The more important thing is if you reach this critical mass, then you end up with your people, protecting the culture and telling you, and then I have to be willing to do or whoever is taking action in that. That’s the other thing is they watch. If you don’t take action with that, then you risk damaging or destroying your culture overall. It’s tricky.

Talk a little bit about the challenge of maintaining that culture as the company is growing.

Our company does $250 million a year in revenue. There is a belief across the board that we could 2X, 3X, 4X that, not because I want to, but because it’s becoming that. Some of the ones I’m interviewing and talking to, they’re like, “We love your culture and this is such a good size of company to be in. Once you hit that $750 million to $1 billion a year mark, the culture goes to hell.” I kept hearing this over and over again with different people that I would talk to. I’m like, “Why don’t we get together now? If we know that is a byproduct, then let’s not be the company that lets the culture go to hell. If we just let it go there, go to those bigger numbers, then inevitably it will.”

Leave your ego if you have one. You don't need it when you're dealing with good people. Click To Tweet

To me, it’s a known problem statement overall. It’s like when outside money comes in, it’s known that everything looks like it’s going to be better and is for about a year and a half and certain financial KPIs aren’t met, things happen, things change and new managers come in. If I can maneuver without doing that, then how do we maneuver north of where we are with a constant conversation around how we keep that culture or keep it close? I don’t have the answer to that question, but what I can tell you is internally, we are highly aware of both the opportunity and the risk. The risk being damaging or destroying the culture that makes the business what it is. We would swim north and then fall south very quickly.

I don’t think I’ve heard anybody describe the challenge and the way to meet that challenge in quite that way before. You do hear a lot of horror stories about how we used to be or the good old days around here. “When we were a smaller company, everybody knew each other, then we grew,” it happens a lot, but I haven’t heard anybody say before, “Team, let’s acknowledge that we have a great culture. Let’s acknowledge that we’d like to grow this company. What all of us are going to do to make sure that as we grow, we don’t compromise our culture and that we can grow because of our culture and the attention that we put on it.” Have that conversation with everybody, “We’re all figuring it out together.” As opposed to a fait accompli, “This is our destiny. It’s a choice of stay where we are, grow a little bit or go through the roof and kill what we love about this place in the process. Why does it have to be either/or?” What you’re saying is, “It doesn’t, as long as we start to work now and anticipate that.”

It will be if we do the same thing everybody else has done. Whatever different is, we’ll figure out or try, and that will be part of what keeps our culture is our focus on doing that.

Whenever I asked the question, “How do you feel about your employees?” The love that you have for them is evident. It emanates from you. The question that I have for you not for my own curiosity, but on behalf of everybody who’s reading, that obvious, authentic feeling that you have that comes across in how you talk about them, what does it look like in the way that you lead, in the way that you do business? If I were to ask, take a random number of people who work in Entisys360 and say, “How do you think Mike feels about?” “He loves us.” “How do you know?” What would some of the answers be? What does it look like for you?

This is a hard one for me. You get to know people personally. As the company gets bigger, how do you do that? You lay yourself out and I’ve made some mistakes. It’s interesting because I do weekly video addresses with our company. When I make errors, I say them to everybody. I had something where I was interviewing some people for some key roles in our business. Afterward, somebody called the guy that introduced me to him and said, “Is that guy for real? Is that authentic?” He goes, “There’s nothing else hidden there. What you see is what you get.”

I have been doing my thing, my way for so long. I’m interested and fascinated with people. I suppose, that’s a big part of it too. I have a curious nature about me and I get excited about what people are about, what excites them, their ideas, and everything else. I’m not about shutting everything down or being a boss. To live a life where you spend so much time with so many people and to not have a close connection with those people would be a total lost opportunity from a lifetime perspective, not from a business perspective.

Your curiosity about them transcends the job function that they have as human beings in their lives. The way that you satisfy that curiosity with the way that you learn is by spending time with them talking.

Leave your ego if you have one wherever. You don’t need it when you’re dealing with good people and you don’t need it either when they’re dealing with people that support them and believe in them.

What does love look like in the way that you lead? It’s not just a feeling, but an observable practice. Part of that is you spend time with people, talking human-to-human, getting to know them. You’re fascinated and curious about them. They know that because of the questions that you ask and the attention that you give them. That’s the very simple observable behavior. The other thing I’m imagining is when they hear you talk about them, it’s an evidence about how you feel. Let me add one thing from a fly on the wall perspective that it’s been a number of years, but I did spend a fair amount of time with you guys many years ago before you went through this big growth.

We spent a day up in Irvine. We took a couple of videographers with us and interviewed a bunch of people in the office. We had a great time with a couple of young videographers. The camera crew worked hard, everybody on the team was very generous with their time. I remember this vividly. I had such a great time watching this happen. At the end of the day, you took everybody out for dinner and everybody who wanted to come and there was available in the office and the camera crew, which is my brother-in-law, Justin and his friend. They were starving students. They came along to dinner. We went to this big fancy steakhouse in Orange County. I will never forget seeing Justin at this table, the giant eyes as they were kept bringing out plates and plates of food.

He was like, “What can I order?” You said to him, “You get whatever you want.” I don’t know what that dinner costs, but to these kids, it absolutely blew their mind. What that left me with was this wonderful feeling and spirit of generosity that exists in that place. I’m not saying it all flows from your head. As a leader of the organization, you influence that, but I felt that from every person that I met there. It’s a very simple thing, but it all ties together. There are a lot of leaders out there that will buy people dinner. They will throw money at parties and do that thing, but if that’s all there is, then it’s, “Thanks for the dinner.” If they’re treated like crap at work the next day, who cares?

You see the things where I’ve seen businesses, where they try to do the dinners and nobody wants to go. They feel like it’s another punishment, they can’t go home to their family and then you can see it. It’s not the act or the statement, it’s what’s underneath and people that like to spend more time. Another very interesting thing that my industry did in the last many years has a lot of conferences, getaways and a lot of this, a lot of that. There’s a lot of time spent away from home. I also believe that because people have to work so hard that their spouses or husbands or wives, you have a lot for them to do what they do for us.

It’s not just about making money. We have purposely created in any and every possible scenario. I got a lot of industry resistance from this at first, but now I don’t. Spouse inclusive, opportunities, but when we were traveling to conferences and things like that, or doing our own things and keeping the door wide open and not saying, “No. This is work.” In getting to know these people and their spouses as couples, you bring another level of closeness and care into the equation. You can’t write that in a business plan. You have to want to do that and you have to each other for that to work.

“We’re gone on a business trip or going to a conference and your husband, wife, significant other is invited and included.” As we bring this discussion in for a landing and we were coming back to the whole premise of this show, what advice would you give me if I were a version of your in-the-drawer-self as somebody who is, whether or not I’m the positional head of a company, but as a person who lights up at this whole idea, feels right, the instinct, the impulse is there, love is a practice? It is something I believe will make business and the world at large better, but reluctant.

It’s not as scary as you think. Take that first step and you’ll find out how many more you’ll want to take and be willing to take after the fact for sure. Soon enough, you won’t be taking the steps, you’ll be pursuing it because you’ll find it’s not a way to run a business. You’ll find it’s a way of life.

Every now and then I’ll get a text from you and you’ll give me a little vignette of something that happened. I flashed back on this, where you were in conference with other CEOs. You were going around the table and the task was, “Say a couple of things about what’s important in business or important in the way you run your business.” Does that ring a bell to you? I remember it came around to you and you said, “Love.”

I’ve probably done that a few times. It does quiet the room, but then it makes people think and it definitely creates conversation. I have no problem sharing that. It’s funny when it comes to leap as a whole love energy, audacity and proof but it’s like, I almost have added an extra A, but then it sounds funny. Love energy, audacity and authenticity are the thing to me too. If you can’t be authentic, the rest of it doesn’t matter. You won’t get away with it or at least for very long.

I always looked at authenticity as the environment in which this takes place. It’s not pretend to love, pretend to generate energy, pretend to be audacious and give us as much proof as you can without having to give too much. If it’s not coming, if it’s not real, then it doesn’t work, but it also doesn’t hurt to put on that question. “Am I showing up as who I really am? Am I being an authentic leadership coaching?” That’s what people respond to. If people want to want to learn more about Entisys360, want to I connect with you and give you a chance to make some new friends. Maybe somebody who is reading this thinks they’d be a great fit for you guys. What’s the best way for people to get in touch?

Our website is www.Entisys360.com or send me an email at MikeS@Entisys.com.

Mike, thank you. It’s been a real treat and tremendously valuable for me and for everybody reading. Everybody, thank you all for reading. Until the next time we meet, don’t forget to do what you love in the service of people who love what you do.

Important Links:

• Entisys360
• The Radical Leap
• The Radical Edge
• MikeS@Entisys.com
• https://www.Entisys360.com/

About Mike Strohl

Since joining the company in 1994, Mike has played a vital role in developing key business partnerships and establishing Entisys360 as an award-winning IT consultancy specializing in the deployment and delivery of advanced IT infrastructure, virtualization, security and cloud first solutions.
Entisys360’s many accolades include seven consecutive years on the Inc. 500|5000 list; nine consecutive years on the CRN “Solution Provider 500” with recognition as the “Top Technology Practice – Virtualization” in 2011; seven consecutive years on the CRN “Tech Elite 250”; and, recognition as part of the CRN “Fast Growth 150” and CRN “Triple Crown” Awards. Over the years, Entisys360 has also received many “Partner of the Year” accolades from Citrix, Cisco, Microsoft, NetApp and other vendor partners. Entisys360 is also recognized on an annual basis by the San Francisco Business Times as one of the Bay Area’s top companies.
Mike is based in Entisys360’s Irvine, Calif. office.

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